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John Navas
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 Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:44 pm Post subject: NEWS: Free Wi-Fi still a goer in San Fran' |
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<http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/06/12/free_wi_fi_san_francisco/>
While municipal Wi-Fi systems are being switched off from
Philadelphia to Cupertino, San Francisco is planning to have the
whole city connected wirelessly by the end of the year.
Haight-Ashbury and the Mission District are already covered by the
"Free The Net" project, a mesh network run by Meraki and paid for as
a research project by the company, which is backed by Google amongst
others. But yesterday Mayor Gavin Newsom said the project will be
available to all San Francisco residents by the end of the year.
This follows on from the last attempts to wireless-up the city, in a
joint venture with Google and Earthlink. That project foundered on
privacy concerns and funding problems, having someone else to pay for
it might help this time around. Additionally this time Google is one
step removed, which might distract those with privacy concerns.
Certainly municipal Wi-Fi isn't having a lot of success around the
US. Earthlink is pulling out of its Philadelphia deployment after
offering to hand over the infrastructure to anyone who wanted it and
failing to find a buyer. Meanwhile MetroFi is to shut down its
networks in Sunnyvale, Santa Clara, Cupertino and San Jose on June
20th, and is mostly concerned with avoiding the cost of ripping out
the infrastructure they've got installed in lamp-posts around the
area.
Residents of Geneva and St. Charles, Kane County are still waiting
for MeshLinx Wireless to start installing municipal Wi-Fi, which
could find itself stillborn if WiMAX deployments go ahead as
expected.
Around the world the idea of cities providing a low-bandwidth Wi-Fi
service to their residents for free has been considered, promoted,
deployed and bankrupted time and time again, but that's not stopping
San Franciso -- the city that still wants everyone to wear flowers in
its hair, and with a mayor convinced that municipal Wi-Fi should be
his legacy.
--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes> |
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Bill Z.
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 12:57 am Post subject: Re: NEWS: Free Wi-Fi still a goer in San Fran' |
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John Navas <spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> writes:
| Quote: |
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/06/12/free_wi_fi_san_francisco/
snip
Around the world the idea of cities providing a low-bandwidth Wi-Fi
service to their residents for free has been considered, promoted,
deployed and bankrupted time and time again, but that's not stopping
San Franciso -- the city that still wants everyone to wear flowers in
its hair, and with a mayor convinced that municipal Wi-Fi should be
his legacy.
|
Try <http://www.newsguide.us/technology/networking/Meraki-Extends-Free-The-Net-Project-In-San-Francisco-To-Affordable-Housing-Complexes/>
It seems that no city funds are involved and that the company
providing it intends to sell hardware/software to anyone who
wants to create such a network.
The bad feature I found so far is described at
<http://sf.meraki.com/faq#tech>, which claims that the first
time you use it, you get some sort of "splash screen", which
I guess is a web page, and that you can "click through it" to
go to where you first intended. If you don't have a browser
or use a browser, it is not clear what happens. |
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Roy
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:29 am Post subject: Re: NEWS: Free Wi-Fi still a goer in San Fran' |
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Bill Z. wrote:
| Quote: |
John Navas <spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> writes:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/06/12/free_wi_fi_san_francisco/
snip
Around the world the idea of cities providing a low-bandwidth Wi-Fi
service to their residents for free has been considered, promoted,
deployed and bankrupted time and time again, but that's not stopping
San Franciso -- the city that still wants everyone to wear flowers in
its hair, and with a mayor convinced that municipal Wi-Fi should be
his legacy.
Try <http://www.newsguide.us/technology/networking/Meraki-Extends-Free-The-Net-Project-In-San-Francisco-To-Affordable-Housing-Complexes/
It seems that no city funds are involved and that the company
providing it intends to sell hardware/software to anyone who
wants to create such a network.
The bad feature I found so far is described at
http://sf.meraki.com/faq#tech>, which claims that the first
time you use it, you get some sort of "splash screen", which
I guess is a web page, and that you can "click through it" to
go to where you first intended. If you don't have a browser
or use a browser, it is not clear what happens.
|
You have to do a bit of reading to figure out this network. The idea is
for "volunteers" to purchase repeaters for their homes and thus extend
the network.
Here's some more info on what it actually is
http://www.dailywireless.org/2007/03/05/meraki-rocks-the-casbah/ |
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Steve Pope
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:40 pm Post subject: Re: NEWS: Free Wi-Fi still a goer in San Fran' |
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Dane Jasper <dane@sonic.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
In ba.internet Roy <aa4re@aa4re.ampr.org> wrote:
: You have to do a bit of reading to figure out this network. The idea is
: for "volunteers" to purchase repeaters for their homes and thus extend
: the network.
And in the process, violate the terms of service of their own Internet
connection.
|
I got the impression the city was asking for free rooftop space
and probably power, but not for the resident to supply an
internet connection to the device, which is a repeater.
In any event, this does not seem a real substitute for
the previously-planned deployment which fell through.
Steve |
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Dane Jasper
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| Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 1:31 am Post subject: Re: NEWS: Free Wi-Fi still a goer in San Fran' |
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In ba.internet Roy <aa4re@aa4re.ampr.org> wrote:
: You have to do a bit of reading to figure out this network. The idea is
: for "volunteers" to purchase repeaters for their homes and thus extend
: the network.
And in the process, violate the terms of service of their own Internet
connection.
I guess the talk of bandwidth caps will put the kibosh on this in the long
run anyway.
: Here's some more info on what it actually is
: http://www.dailywireless.org/2007/03/05/meraki-rocks-the-casbah/
--
Dane Jasper Sonic.net, Inc.
(707)522-1000
mailto:dane@sonic.net http://www.sonic.net/
Key fingerprint = A5 D6 6E 16 D8 81 BA E9 CB BD A9 77 B3 AF 45 53 |
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John Higdon
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| Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 1:55 am Post subject: Re: NEWS: Free Wi-Fi still a goer in San Fran' |
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In article <48542aaf$0$17237$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
Dane Jasper <dane@sonic.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
I guess the talk of bandwidth caps will put the kibosh on this in the long
run anyway.
|
Indeed. Bandwidth caps will put the damper on many things the Internet
promised and may take away some things we take for granted now. I
suspect that one day, we'll look fondly back on unlimited dial-up
Internet service.
--
John Higdon
+1 408 ANdrews 6-4400 |
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Bill Z.
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| Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 2:35 am Post subject: Re: NEWS: Free Wi-Fi still a goer in San Fran' |
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Dane Jasper <dane@sonic.net> writes:
| Quote: |
In ba.internet Roy <aa4re@aa4re.ampr.org> wrote:
: You have to do a bit of reading to figure out this network. The idea is
: for "volunteers" to purchase repeaters for their homes and thus extend
: the network.
And in the process, violate the terms of service of their own Internet
connection.
|
The articles on it claimed that wasn't a problem due to the ISPs the
company making the repeaters uses. |
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John Navas
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:15 pm Post subject: Re: NEWS: Free Wi-Fi still a goer in San Fran' |
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On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:55:38 -0700, John Higdon
<HisRoyalRadioHigness@kome.com> wrote in
<HisRoyalRadioHigness-6E2B47.13553714062008@news.announcetech.com>:
| Quote: |
In article <48542aaf$0$17237$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
Dane Jasper <dane@sonic.net> wrote:
I guess the talk of bandwidth caps will put the kibosh on this in the long
run anyway.
Indeed. Bandwidth caps will put the damper on many things the Internet
promised and may take away some things we take for granted now. I
suspect that one day, we'll look fondly back on unlimited dial-up
Internet service.
|
I seriously doubt that. The "caps" being considered are in the GIGAbyte
range of broadband, not the MEGAbyte range of dialup. Like most people
I'm not even close to that level of transfer.
I'm not sure what you mean by "things the Internet promised" -- do you?
-- but I don't see any real risk to anything other than massive
audio/video downloading, which is NOT what the Internet was built for.
The real issue isn't "caps" -- it's the insanity of flat rate pricing,
where normal users wind up subsidizing bandwidth hogs. It's long since
time for metered usage.
--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes> |
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John Higdon
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:46 pm Post subject: Re: NEWS: Free Wi-Fi still a goer in San Fran' |
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In article <819i545fe2h55o2p71gfhoul5ois99ut4l@4ax.com>,
John Navas <spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
I seriously doubt that. The "caps" being considered are in the GIGAbyte
range of broadband, not the MEGAbyte range of dialup. Like most people
I'm not even close to that level of transfer.
|
And if you don't need it, no one does. I understand.
| Quote: |
I'm not sure what you mean by "things the Internet promised" -- do you?
-- but I don't see any real risk to anything other than massive
audio/video downloading, which is NOT what the Internet was built for.
|
Could you direct me to a reference which outlines "what the Internet was
built for"? I had always mistakenly assumed that it was a dumb network
whose usage was limited only by the imagination of those utilizing it.
| Quote: |
The real issue isn't "caps" -- it's the insanity of flat rate pricing,
where normal users wind up subsidizing bandwidth hogs. It's long since
time for metered usage.
|
I respectfully disagree.
--
John Higdon
+1 408 ANdrews 6-4400 |
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Steve Pope
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:14 am Post subject: Re: NEWS: Free Wi-Fi still a goer in San Fran' |
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John Navas <spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
I seriously doubt that. The "caps" being considered are in the GIGAbyte
range of broadband, not the MEGAbyte range of dialup. Like most people
I'm not even close to that level of transfer.
|
Just out of curiosity what sort of level of transfer are you
seeing from your usage?
I see 100 megabytes since this morning, from one computer
engaging in mild web usage. I do not know what I could
do to reliably get under a 5 gig monthly cap. All I am running
is putty and Internet Explorer. 5 gigs/month seems way low to me.
Steve |
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John Navas
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:03 am Post subject: Re: NEWS: Free Wi-Fi still a goer in San Fran' |
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On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 09:46:05 -0700, John Higdon
<HisRoyalRadioHigness@kome.com> wrote in
<HisRoyalRadioHigness-5BE3A3.09460518062008@news.announcetech.com>:
| Quote: |
In article <819i545fe2h55o2p71gfhoul5ois99ut4l@4ax.com>,
John Navas <spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> wrote:
I seriously doubt that. The "caps" being considered are in the GIGAbyte
range of broadband, not the MEGAbyte range of dialup. Like most people
I'm not even close to that level of transfer.
And if you don't need it, no one does. I understand.
|
What part of "most people" was unclear? ;)
| Quote: |
I'm not sure what you mean by "things the Internet promised" -- do you?
-- but I don't see any real risk to anything other than massive
audio/video downloading, which is NOT what the Internet was built for.
Could you direct me to a reference which outlines "what the Internet was
built for"? I had always mistakenly assumed that it was a dumb network
whose usage was limited only by the imagination of those utilizing it.
|
There are ample references to the fact that multicasting wasn't a
consideration in the original design of TCP/IP, on which the Internet is
based, as I'm sure you know.
| Quote: |
The real issue isn't "caps" -- it's the insanity of flat rate pricing,
where normal users wind up subsidizing bandwidth hogs. It's long since
time for metered usage.
I respectfully disagree.
|
I take it then that you're one of those profiting from subsidies by the
rest of us. ;)
--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes> |
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John Higdon
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:54 am Post subject: Re: NEWS: Free Wi-Fi still a goer in San Fran' |
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In article <g3cbt4$j0k$1@blue.rahul.net>,
spope33@speedymail.org (Steve Pope) wrote:
| Quote: |
I see 100 megabytes since this morning, from one computer
engaging in mild web usage. I do not know what I could
do to reliably get under a 5 gig monthly cap. All I am running
is putty and Internet Explorer. 5 gigs/month seems way low to me.
|
Of course it's low. A single web page with all of its
graphical/video/whirly-twirly bling can amount to many megabytes. My
EVDO app gives a usage report. I only use the service when out of town
to basically stay in touch.
The week I spent at the NAB convention in April racked up over 2 GB of
usage. That's using the computer in the hotel room in the morning and
late in the evening since I didn't take it with me to the convention
center. It was all from web activity (mainly checking on orders and
products I was investigating at the convention), email, Usenet, and some
home network administration. That's it.
Cap primary connections at 5GB/month? A lot of people are going to be
hurting, big time.
--
John Higdon
+1 408 ANdrews 6-4400 |
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Steve Fenwick
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:27 am Post subject: Re: NEWS: Free Wi-Fi still a goer in San Fran' |
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In article
<HisRoyalRadioHigness-70941C.18541818062008@news.announcetech.com>,
John Higdon <HisRoyalRadioHigness@kome.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
In article <g3cbt4$j0k$1@blue.rahul.net>,
spope33@speedymail.org (Steve Pope) wrote:
I see 100 megabytes since this morning, from one computer
engaging in mild web usage. I do not know what I could
do to reliably get under a 5 gig monthly cap. All I am running
is putty and Internet Explorer. 5 gigs/month seems way low to me.
Of course it's low. A single web page with all of its
graphical/video/whirly-twirly bling can amount to many megabytes. My
EVDO app gives a usage report. I only use the service when out of town
to basically stay in touch.
The week I spent at the NAB convention in April racked up over 2 GB of
usage. That's using the computer in the hotel room in the morning and
late in the evening since I didn't take it with me to the convention
center. It was all from web activity (mainly checking on orders and
products I was investigating at the convention), email, Usenet, and some
home network administration. That's it.
Cap primary connections at 5GB/month? A lot of people are going to be
hurting, big time.
|
It's a bit like charging cellphone users for incoming calls. I can't
tell who "Private Call" is; I can answer it, and it may be a junk call,
or it may be a family member trying to get in touch with me urgently.
Likewise, many sites cannot be navigated without accepting lots of audio
and video. There is no disincentive to them, except (maybe) lost
customers, but there's no way I can force Amazon not to have lots of
graphics that eat up bandwidth. This is not just retail sites; many B2B
sites are laden with Flash content.
I maintain that the thing that makes the Internet what the vast majority
want is the freely available use of bandwidth to access data on a whim.
Break that, and we're back to the state of data telecommunications in
the days of per-minute metering--only used sparingly, and not by most.
Steve
--
steve <at> w0x0f <dot> com
"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of
arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to
skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, chip shot in the other, body thoroughly
used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** |
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Mark McIntyre
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:00 am Post subject: Re: NEWS: Free Wi-Fi still a goer in San Fran' |
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John Navas wrote:
| Quote: |
On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 09:46:05 -0700, John Higdon
HisRoyalRadioHigness@kome.com> wrote in
HisRoyalRadioHigness-5BE3A3.09460518062008@news.announcetech.com>:
In article <819i545fe2h55o2p71gfhoul5ois99ut4l@4ax.com>,
John Navas <spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> wrote:
I seriously doubt that. The "caps" being considered are in the GIGAbyte
range of broadband, not the MEGAbyte range of dialup. Like most people
I'm not even close to that level of transfer.
And if you don't need it, no one does. I understand.
What part of "most people" was unclear? ;)
|
The part where you produced some evidence that "most people" only
generated hundreds of megs of monthly traffic? :-)
| Quote: |
I'm not sure what you mean by "things the Internet promised" -- do you?
-- but I don't see any real risk to anything other than massive
audio/video downloading, which is NOT what the Internet was built for.
Could you direct me to a reference which outlines "what the Internet was
built for"? I had always mistakenly assumed that it was a dumb network
whose usage was limited only by the imagination of those utilizing it.
There are ample references to the fact that multicasting wasn't a
consideration in the original design of TCP/IP, on which the Internet is
based, as I'm sure you know.
|
I'm unclear as to how this answers the question. |
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Dane Jasper
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:41 pm Post subject: Re: NEWS: Free Wi-Fi still a goer in San Fran' |
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In ba.internet John Higdon <HisRoyalRadioHigness@kome.com> wrote:
: Cap primary connections at 5GB/month? A lot of people are going to be
: hurting, big time.
I don't think ANY carriers are talking about caps that low for wireline
service. I've seen numbers between 150 Gigs/mo and 500 Gigs/mo in
discussion from different carriers.
--
Dane Jasper Sonic.net, Inc.
(707)522-1000
mailto:dane@sonic.net http://www.sonic.net/
Key fingerprint = A5 D6 6E 16 D8 81 BA E9 CB BD A9 77 B3 AF 45 53 |
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